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Cornelius IX
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Posted - 2009.05.20 11:24:00 -
[1]
As a dedicated Explorer, I was really excited about the changes being made to probing. Now I'm not so sure.
I spent alot of time training skills only to find that, now, it was pretty much a waste of time. With the new probing system anyone can train for a couple of hours and pretty much find anything I can, fair enough it takes them a few more scans but since scan time is 6 secs it amounts to nothing. If this was a move by CCP to please the 'instant gratification WoW types' then I fear the game is doomed in the long run.
I don't understand why skills can't be used to access different level of sites. Using same probes but what can be found is linked to skills just like other professions. The helios,and other explo ships are pretty much useless, will only reduce search by a couple of scans (12 secs). The change has made explorers who have spent a large amount of time specialising redundant and not as widely needed by corps/alliances to hunt out enemies, sites etc.
I feel that something needs to be done about this, if you are an Explorer and have an opinion on this topic please reply with suggestions and opinions.
Cornelius IX
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Cornelius IX
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Posted - 2009.05.20 22:32:00 -
[2]
The reason I posted this thread wasn't wether the new system was better, it clearly is and I do prefer the way probing works, but I fear that it has taken exploration away as a career path and valued skill within pvp fleets. Too many people can now explore with only a few hours training and hit the exact same sites I can, with only a little difference in time.
Lets say they did something similar to Mining and it was possible to mine anything (from droid to moon) with the basic skills just varying the time it takes by a few seconds for each yeild with other skills. This would remove it as a career choice in my opinion.
What makes EVE special is the ability to specialise and sell/use your skill to assist allies and corp. if everyone was simply a 'Jack of all trades' it would become boring...how many times in the past did the cry go out for a prober when enemies were around....loads. I have not been asked once since the upgrade to do this. This indicates to me that exploration as a career is dying.
And I can only assume it's because it is not skill reliant anymore....skills only reduce the time it takes by very little......5 extra scans for example takes about 1 min with the basic skills and you WILL find whatever is out there just the same as someone with high skills. We have a trainee explorer in our corp and he managed to find a 6/10 plex in 5 more scans than me, thats 35secs probing time and approx 1 min of moving probes.....where's his incentive to spend months training?
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Cornelius IX
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Posted - 2009.05.20 22:41:00 -
[3]
oh...and meant to say....I will be testing with an alt who currently has no explo skills
Will start training and post results as I go.
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Cornelius IX
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Posted - 2009.05.21 08:25:00 -
[4]
I'm not saying we need to change it back...I'm saying it still needs to be developed, I understand the need to get more people exploring in order to find the stuff required for T3.....but everyone can become an explorer and find everything in a relatively short training cycle therefore it dissapears as a specialised career in the game and I'm sure everyone agrees, thats what makes EVE what it is, the decision you have to make at an early stage depending on career path you choose. If it happens with exploration will it happen to everything over the piece as the game continues to develop. The fact that so many people have read this forum in such a short time indicates to me that it is a contentious issue and we need to come up with a way to develop exploration in order to save it as a chosen career path.
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Cornelius IX
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Posted - 2009.05.22 12:29:00 -
[5]
I just did the test with an alt as promised.
I Scanned a Pro Hack site in fully fitted helios with Sisters probes etc, all skills and explo implants...took me 4 scans.
Did same site with alt after basic taining to use launcher, in non explo fitted harb using basic probes no implants....took 8 scans. (Approx 2 minutes longer)
Now tell me thats OK
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Cornelius IX
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Posted - 2009.05.22 15:16:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Qual
Edited by: Qual on 22/05/2009 12:49:37
Originally by: Cornelius IX
Now tell me thats OK
Its OK.
See the reason it took you only 2 minutes longer was your player skill. Yay! Not some dumb luck, but the fact that you know the craft of scanning. Good for you!
Character skills should only make a marginal difference, like in PvP.
I don't agree, the point is that exploration is a specialised career path and that is now gone. If that happens with everything the game will be ruined. The idea that corps/alliances have, and need, skill specific players is what makes it interesting. As stated in earlier post, if everyone can do everything with very little specialised training whats the point in taking training further, just have everything at basic levels and ruin the feel of the game.
It's early days in new explo and all i'm saying is it should be looked at so that exploration as a specialisation/career is not lost due to lack of need for 'in game' skill training.
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Cornelius IX
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Posted - 2009.05.26 18:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Exploration didn't take any skill, it just took time. I love to explore, but the old system was waiting for a die roll at the end of a timer. How boring can you design a game?
The new system has not made exploration skill-less, it made exploration more accessible. You no longer need either an alt or be afk most of the time to explore. you no longer need to cross a huge skill threshold.
Explorer is an archetypical activity. EVE newbies that like to explore should be able to access the exploration gameplay right after they start their careers, not 6 months into the game.
Mardaneth, 1st - this isn't about old versus new....as stated so many times!!!!
2nd - EXACTLY!!!....the point is it's not IN GAME skill based anymore. It's been designed for the 'instant gratification' types so they can do stuff quickly......would you be happy if they did that with everything?....in my opinion it would ruin the game.
What makes EVE what it is the need to invest time in a chosen specialisation..... for example, EXPLORATION.
Why cater for 'EVE newbies'?.....the game has survived and flourished without the need to do this. It's the fact that you need to invest time in it that's made it so successful, especially with long term players....do we really want some kids who cry because they can't do everything instantly ...they will just stick around for a week or so then go find the next game that lets then have instant 'lulz'.
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Cornelius IX
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Posted - 2009.05.26 18:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Abel Geiss
Whine post!
For those who don't like change, don't play games with DLC. For those who don't like competition, go play a massively singleplayer game.
IDIOT....all I can really say. If you have nothing to say thats constructive in this discussion...go talk to your wee pals on bebo.
The game is assisted in it's development through discussions like this....I expected more from a player who's been around for just over a year dude....at least those that disagree actually HAVE an arguement and are involved in the discussion.
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Cornelius IX
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Posted - 2009.05.27 20:03:00 -
[9]
OK heres a suggestion, let me know what you think.
Why not have exploration site access dependent on skill level. This could be done without changing the new probing system. For example, currently 10/10 sites can be found by anyone but unless you have Leadership Skill to 5 you cannot get through the gate. Surely this could be easily atapted for other pro sites.
This would mean that everyone can still find all sites and still complete anomolies, but in order to access gated sites at various levels they would have to work on skills.
What do you think?
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Cornelius IX
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Posted - 2009.05.29 19:47:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Cornelius IX on 29/05/2009 19:52:27
Originally by: Kzintee
Are you telling me that I need to spend 3 months training scanning to V JUST so I can get to the sites I know I can clear?
YES!!!
You chose to specialise another path, if you decide you want to specialise at something else...then train....I have too...just because I'm a good explorer doesn't mean I am entitled to be good at everything else...thats the point, and as said, is what makes EVE such an engaging game....I not only had to train to find the sites, I am also training so I can clear them or at least get others to assist when required if my skills aren't up to scratch in the dp department.....it's about choice...if they decide to do it with one career...whats to stop them from doing it with everything......skills become meaningless unless its about shooting stuff.....how dull will EVE become.
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Cornelius IX
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Posted - 2009.05.29 22:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kzintee}
Flying a carrier is one thing, using it effectively is another.
Will I mind laughing when the said carrier gets popped because pilot has no skills? No, I won't.[/quote
Exactly the point Kzintee.....Skill training is essential, take that away and what do you have?
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